Posted by: shannynmoore | September 14, 2011

Mourning Joe

I wrote this last winter but didn’t post it. Sadly, it still stands.

It’s hard to describe how surreal it was to meet the man who wrote a book I grew
up with. I remember the cover. Joe McGinniss had written one of the best books
about Alaska, though controversial in the late 70′s, but if Alaska is anything,
it’s controversial. I guess I thought he was just a guy who probably lived up
the Anchor River from our cabin, why would anyone write about Alaska unless they
didn’t have anything better to write about.

Then I read The Selling Of The President. Required reading at the time, and it rocked my world.
When Joe McGinniss contacted me in November of 2008 I was star struck. After
meeting him, spending more time talking about Bobby Kennedy than Palin, I’d
fallen in love. He was a bridge to a time before my birth that seemed more
curious than current times. The same day I met him, he sent me an email with a
paragraph he’d written and asked me to keep it in confidence. I did. It wasn’t
the last time he’d ask me to keep a secret.

Last February, a manuscript was leaked to the press. It was not breaking news
that Frank Bailey, former Palin aid had written a book. The news was who
collaborated with him; Jeanne Devon of Mudflats. I knew. I hadn’t known for long,
but I knew. She’d been offered (insisted by Ken Morris, a co-author) the chance
to read over 60,000 emails from Palin, Bailey and company and she took it. I’d
have punched her if she’d turned it down.  I agreed to keep confidence before I
knew the secret. I kept it.

Driving home from filming my TV show, it occurred to me who leaked it. No one
told me. I called a journalist who had received the leaked manuscript and asked.
It was confirmed.
Joe committed friendship suicide. I was asked to keep his secrets and a scourge
for keeping someone else’s.

I talked to a friend of mine in the national press this week. He said, “Joe
seduced a murderer, why did you think you were smarter?” I didn’t know. I didn’t
vet Joe.  It occurred to me, this is why Sarah Palin was elected. This is why I
took Joe McGinniss in like family. Alaska has an open heart that doesn’t ask for
a history. At one point, it was rude to ask people where they were from. Many
people run away to Alaska, reinvent themselves, and carry on. When people out
themselves as both Sarah and now, Joe, we get it.

I’m sure Joe’s book will show Sarah for who she is. I’m trying not to say “It
takes one to know one” here.  By releasing the unfinished manuscript of Frank
Bailey, Ken Morris and Jeanne Devon, he’s shown himself to be more like his subject.

I don’t think they are
that different.

Money. Loyalty tests. Vendettas.

Please realize how hard this is.
Joe McGinniss has stayed in my home, helped my daughter with her homework and
made me laugh like no other. His phone number is stored as “Larry David” on my
cell phone. We had one of the best weekends of my entire life in Alaska last
summer. Driving the 220 miles to my hometown of Homer, I explained to him the
detailed caution of porcupine copulation. Visiting my folks, his kindness
towards my mother and a trip to Halibut Cove on my pop’s boat.

That night, we drank fantastic scotch, talked about life’s regrets which
included missed opportunities for cannibalization, spent the night and in the
morning, after fresh eggs, stood at the grave of a dear friend of mine he’d met
in the 70′s while researching Going to Extremes. Watching soccer with him was
religious.  I introduced him to Oxford Fall’s “Wake Up Crabby” Bloody Mary Mix
and shucked countless Kachemak Bay Oysters. These silly details seemed part of a
sacred friendship.

I was played.

While I watch the investment of over a year by three people evaporate because
of his fear, I still find myself mourning Joe.

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Responses

  1. I think we are losing sight of what we have been trying to accomplish for the last 3 years which is to make sure that Sarah Palin is NEVER elected again. At this moment she must be thrilled with all this controversy surrounding Joe & is readying herself to again play the victim.
    And so the grifting continues also too.

  2. It’s always a bit of a jolt to learn that someone you admire is “merely human.” But when you find that someone has feet of clay, that can break your heart.

    The loss is his; I believe he’s even lost the respect of the publishing community because of his actions. He’s just too damned obtuse to realize it (yet).

    The following words have consoled me on a number of occasions: Time wounds all heels. Here’s hoping it’s true.

  3. It always hurts to know you were played; no one likes to feel used. Sadly, Joe appears to be too narcissistic to ever accept his lack of integrity in the Bailey book escapade. Sadly too, it has caused some nasty in-fighting among those of us who follow these blogs. If someone is principled enough to say he/she cancelled his/her order for Joe’s book, the attack is on.

    • Well no, the “in-fighting” was a group’s objection to Joe’s blog management style and responses to cyber-bullying.
      Threats to cancel book orders were indignation and insult, nothing about “principle”. And never resulted in “attack”, why would it?

      The same individuals are now on IM posting laughingly that they never cancelled book orders anyway…lol…smile…grin…wink wink…etc etc.

      A very good read and food for thought:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14898564

      • I definitely felt attacked. I’m glad your experience was different.

  4. Shannon, “Live and Learn” has been an overarching motto of my rather long and eventful life. It happened. Your grief is for the loss of your illusion. Accept that the only one you can change is you!
    Good luck, and go on!

  5. Shannon, your ability to touch the heart in life is incomparable. Thank you for this extremely moving writing about friendship, trust and loss.

  6. I’m thinking that a few more Alaskans are still to be played by this guy.

    You were a wonderful hostess to this dirtbag when you shared the riches of your life and family in Homer. What a chameleon he is — he turns on his charm to ingratiate himself with new victims, just long enough to get what he needs to write his little books. That’s his ultimate and total goal. His “friendship” to you, Jeanne, and anyone else, was never more than a sham giving him access to sources he needed for the book he was writing. Those little “secrets” he shared with you and Jeanne were just a part of his game to get you to feel like his real friend and confidant. And, damn it, it worked at the time.

    He’s the kind of guy who, long ago, moved on, leaving confusion, disappointment, and anger in his wake, while he tries to figure out who he can screw and charm and ingratiate in preparation for writing his next book.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this guy. It cements what most of us, who care about Jeanne and you, have figured out about him. He’s just a real sorry SOB.

    If you haven’t seen it yet, you might want to look at this unflattering review of the guy’s latest product; it’s kinda fun to read…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/15/books/joe-mcginnisss-the-rogue-on-sarah-palin-review.html?_r=2

  7. This is so very sad, Shannyn…I’m sorry for your loss. It’s harder now, but keep that heart big and open…

  8. I grew up in the South, so maybe that has made me more aware of people who behave in ways such as you described Joe’s actions; they’ll smile and pour honey and molasses on you until you drown and then they’ll plant that knife in your back all the while saying, “how ya doing, Dear?”

    Joe is an investigative journalist. And by that definition, he will do and say what he thinks is necessary to get the information he wants. And that same tenacity, also translates towards his ability to be a successful author. You don’t become a successful, multi-book published investigative journalist without some people-pleasing skills, deviousness, and ability to bust through walls to get what you want.

    I wouldn’t blame Joe for being Joe. Rather understand that you allowed yourself to think he is something other than what he was (at that moment in time). Don’t regret your hospitality, your enjoyment of that trip with Joe, that would be wasteful. (I’ve learned to appreciate life in those tiny moments.)
    .
    Live and learn. People are not always the same thing they portray, or what you think that they should be. And when it comes to fame and fortune, its always a good bet to look towards people’s baser instincts.

    Still, the book he wrote on Palin is very good and will be another success for him. As for Jeanne and her alliance with Bailey, what a learning experience for her, huh? And we could easily apply my 4th paragraph here to Frank Bailey as well. I’d like to come back to Jeanne in a few years and ask her again about this situation. Time and experience has a way of seeing things in a way different perspective than what you see in the midst of the situation.

  9. So what? We’re talking about a very dangerous woman with violent followers. Get the word out. I read the releases and I also bought the book which was just okay. Trust me, it’s a kind of trite and silly book by a man who helped this monster along. Just saying…….

    • I thought the book wasn’t being released until the 20th of September – but I’ve been wrong before, so… just wondered, is all.

      • No you aren’t wrong. The book is not released until September 20th and three people were given advance copies. “jan” was not one of them unless “jan” is either Andrew Sullivan, Gary Trudeau or Rosanne Cash.

      • Jan meant he/she read Blind Allegiance and it “was just okay”.

        • Thanks. I missed the leap from the McGinniss book to the Bailey book.

  10. Why would you feel the need to share something so personal about a friendship of yours at this exact point in time? What need do you have to be like sarah palin and try to discredit Joe McGinniss now? Today was his first national interview and today is when YOU chose to write this post.

    You and todd palin each have made statements with the same intent, to discredit Joe McGinniss. You of course try to disguise it so that one may come away from reading your post with pity, sympathy for you and the betrayal you suffered. One of the issues I have with what you have written is that Joe McGinniss did nothing to you. Nothing.
    To sum things up in a fair manner, you have 2 “friends” who have had a falling out and you have PUBLICLY stated whose side you are on.
    That is deserving of a post why?

    Shannon, why don’t you do a post about your experiences as a beauty pagent contestant? That would be just as enlightening as this “randomly” placed post you have today.

    Who is like sarah palin? let’s see……….she is vindictive-you and Jeanne both posting disparaging information about Joe McGinniss just when he is starting his press junket and his book is within days of being released-yep, check. you two have that one down.

    Poor me. I was so naive and trusting and look what happened………victim much?
    you betcha, that’s how sarah is playing it.

    Using a public forum to air your personal grievances without giving the object of your “hurt, anger, disappointment, etc.” an opportunity to respond…………uh, facebook sarah anyone? yep, you have that one too………..pot meet kettle.

    Are you trying to ride on Joe’s coattails here so that maybe someone from the lower 48 will want to have you on their show to get your perspective? Feeling a bit left out now that Keith isn’t on MSNBC anymore and has no need for you? Poor Sarah, oh oops, I meant to say Poor Shannon.

    Get over it and move on.

    • Oh my! Your comment is full of assumptions, innuendos and fake questions that you answered yourself. You sound just like Sarah – be careful what you turn into when you don’t like something. I would sit in a corner and think very hard about that if I were you…

      • Assumptions? Innuendos? Fake questions?
        Please be specific, otherwise you are turning your words onto yourself.

        “sound just like Sarah”……….I have not seen nor heard an instance when Sarah points out how someone is behaving just like she is. Again, be specific rather than doing your usual schtick of attacking anyone who dares to utter a single word that may be perceived as a defense of Joe McGinniss. Your personal feelings about him have shown up everywhere and i dare say your feelings may be interfering with your ability to see clearly.

        “sit in a corner”? what are we toddlers?
        Unfortunately Matha, life is not black and white. There are many and varied shades of gray. Shannon may very well be hurt and feel betrayed and I may at the exact time have a very valid point.
        My response to her post does not negate her very real feelings does it? NO.

        I question the timing of this post. I question the intent in posting something that is in reality a personal reaction to the falling out of two friends of hers. For some reason Shannon felt a need to voice her opinion about the dispute between Jeanne Devon and Joe McGinniss. Questioning her intentions is no more harmful than her suggestion about vetting Joe and Sarah.
        Why should Shannon not be questioned about her motivations Martha?

      • On another note, how is it that you and others that are piling on the anti Joe McGinniss bandwagon are so CERTAIN of his motivations, Jeanne’s motivations, Ken’s motivations, Frank’s motivations and Shannon’s motivations?

        Reading all of the innumerable replies to posts about this dispute has reminded me of jr. high school. Why do we always have a need to take sides? Why is it requested of to sympathize and pity someone so we do take sides?

        Joe has not expressed his own feelings about this.
        Has anyone ever thought that perhaps he felt played? Per chance Joe could even feel betrayed and hurt?
        Jeanne Devon kept his confidence while keeping from him her own secret-the secret being that she was working on a book about the same subject as he-at the same time-while letting him tell her about what he was writing. When he found out about it-by receiving a copy of the manuscript from his publisher-how did he feel? Not to mention that Jeanne et. al shopped their manuscript to Joe’s publisher-what sort of betrayal is that????

        Regarding Shannon, has she stopped communicating with Joe?
        Did she end that friendship? If she did, does Joe feel hurt? Betrayed?

        To some of us in the lower 48, it certainly seems like there are many in Alaska that only function within a clique. If I were Joe, I believe I would feel like I escaped a snake pit when I left Alaska.
        I know he has fond memories of being there, according to his blog and I know he has stated that there are many people in Alaska that he considers friends. I find it sad that there are some in Alaska that he can no longer call friend.

        Shannon’s comparison of Joe to Sarah discredits herself, not him. Joe is not running for political office. Joe is not presenting himself as anyone other than who he is. He is an author who speaks to hundreds of people to write his investigative pieces.
        I would assume he makes friends with many of the people he meets and speaks to. It sounds like he was a very gracious and fun and lovely guest to Shannon and her family. If she then chose to insert herself into the middle of this dispute and take sides that is her perogative. It does not necessarily mean she was played by Joe.

    • Jeez, who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?

  11. Shannyn, you are obviously hurt and it’s understandable, however, does it take away from the truth about Palin?
    As someone who is disgusted by the ignorance & divisive politics of Palin & her followers, I’m hoping the book Mcginniss wrote will help with stopping this woman from infecting our lives with her fear mongering (DeathPanels) and based on his repertoire of previous books, he does have a 40 yr. reputation for putting substantiated information in his investigative works.

    He’s not the one who needs vetting. His work speaks for itself. He got the info from actual people and you know how afraid some people in AK seem to be.
    At the time Palin came on the scene, your blog was one that I went to hoping to get the truth about this woman. At some point, you seemed to loose interest in all things Palin. This didn’t cause me to get upset with you, on the contrary, that is your right, even though I was disappointed to loose your strong and honest voice on this subject, I admired you & still do.
    I just believed your explanation that you were moving on to other subjects.
    The mess that is Palin and all drama around the books reminds me of the old saying, “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water”.

    Still a reader and follower here,
    Thank you for your blog,

    Jean

  12. For what comfort it may be, your excellent writing turned the cold phrase “breach of confidence” into a hard knot of pain. I will not buy his book, and instead learn the gist of what he uncovered from reviewers and bloggers who didn’t put in the work. But Bailey’s book, was not ethically pure, either. The e-mails which gave the book its saleability and credibility were either public property in which he had no proprietary rights and had no exclusive right to publish, or confidential communications that Palin had a right to expect would not be made public. For liberals, it should be axiomatic that even contemptible people have legal and moral rights.

    Because at the time Palin was a likely candidate for national office, arguably the public’s right to know trumped her right to privacy in some respects, but the public’s right to know does not necessarily imply a right for those who formerly enjoyed her confidence to profit from the disclosure. I’m old enough to remember Watergate, I was glad that Woodward and Bernstein, the reporters who followed the story, profited from their book (I still have it), but while the stories of the convicted participants needed to be told, I was ambivalent about their profiting from telling them.

    This does not excuse McGinness, of course. But sometimes fate is just. I expect that the cumulative effect of all of the extra-publication disclosures of information contained in Bailey’s and McGinness’s books to millions of people who did not buy either of them has already destroyed Palin’s candidacy, and all of the books both by and about her are sliding down the chute to the remainder bin. McGinness’ book will hit the shelves on or after its sell-by date, and will be remembered more for his betrayal of confidence than anything else.

  13. I can see how you might feel you were violated, however, you have had information on Sarah and crew all along haven’t you? Didn’t you get threatened by the AIP mafia and then shut up? All of the information gathered by others should have been published 2 years ago, you missed the boat, quit swimming.

    • You honestly think that I shut up? Wow. Threatened? Yes, by Sarah herself. Shut Up? Not even close.

  14. Shannyn – I know. I know exactly what you are talking about. Listen to the silly whiners who think that the means justifies the ends in defending McGinniss’ actions. No, actually – don’t listen to them. It’s all white noise from people who have become sour, snide and have temporarily (I hope) lost their personal boundaries to the desire of seeing Palin in a ditch.

    I do not share their desperation and I never will. I am sorry that I even know how easily they’ve been derailed from a progressive point of view. You are one of those who I would gladly stand with, fight with, and move forward with. I love Alaska (and Homer) with all of my being and I know you do, too.

    The others – the ones who think that Sarah should be brought down at any cost, all cost and every cost – are lost. Sarah Paliin has not only shown the light on many dirty dealings of her own and those she has drawn into her circle of blame, but unfortunately she has also revealed to us what can happen to decent people who give into fear. They show their bellies, they wail, they blame everyone and anyone because they feel powerless, and humorless.

    I gave up a long time ago on the whackos who support Sarah at any cost, and I have now sadly given up on the ones who support her failure at any cost. They are preaching humanity, but not living it. Blessings and peace from a fellow Alaskan, one who also loves the sea – its beauty, danger and bounty.

    • As mentioned earlier by me Martha, you take every opportunity to slap Joe McGinniss and anyone who shows any sign of defending his position in this silly and sordid mess.

      “Listen to the silly whiners who think that the means justifies the ends in defending McGinniss’ actions”

      If I may speak for some others as well as myself, we are not whining and we are not thinking or stating that the means justifies the ends. I have noticed some people who reply to posts about this subject do so with trepidation-fear of attack from those such as yourself Martha.

      ” It’s all white noise from people who have become sour, snide and have temporarily (I hope) lost their personal boundaries to the desire of seeing Palin in a ditch.”

      I am not sure who you are speaking about in the sentence above, but those of us who will not participate in a smear campaign against Joe McGinniss based upon words by a few bloggers in Alaska have not lost our personal boundaries. Indeed we show our personal boundaries are intact because we will not stand quietly by and let a man’s name and reputation be smeared due to the hurt feelings of a few. I believe Shannon and Jeanne and Ken have all been quite slanderous in their statements against Joe. They have posted these thoughts, feelings, opinions on line and allowed their own “bots” to let go with the venom. Personally I don’t see how this is different than what happens on C4P. Certainly those of us not “falling in line” with the post certainly put ourselves at risk of being called out…………..as I was by YOU Martha earlier up in the thread.

      Shannon is using her public profile to discredit a writer that she feels hurt by………………again, this is different from Sarah in what way exactly? And all of you jumping on the band wagon with your fear for our “loss of boundaries” etc. are different from the Palin”bots” in what way Martha?

      Again, it appears to be VERY much a clique mentality in Alaskas

      We can agree on this:
      “one who also loves the sea – its beauty, danger and bounty.”
      although the sea I live near is not in Alaska which I assume puts me at a distinct disadvantage.

      • I haven’t discredited Joe’s book in the least. Ever. I put him in touch with some of his sources and am not sorry. I haven’t read his book. If you didn’t get how sad I am that I was wrong about him, and still miss him, you didn’t read very closely. This isn’t just about hurt feelings for some. For some it is about having their work devalued and it hurting them personally. I didn’t lose a book deal, or money in my pocket. I lost a friend. There is no smear.

        • Thank you for your reply. I did not say you have discredited Joe’s book- I spoke quite specifically smearing Joe.

          Did Joe cease to be your friend because you kept Jeanne’s secret? If so, then I am sure you are hurt and even angry, however, that is something personal between you and Joe isn’t it? If however, you ceased to have contact with Joe because of the situation between he and Jeanne then you have created your hurt feelings and again it is something personal between you and Joe.

          You and Jeanne and Ken have conveyed your hurt/anger/ over Joe’s alleged betrayal and yet Joe has typed very few words if any about any of you. His private emails to Jeanne were published in truthout and it is obvious in reading them that he did indeed feel betrayed and angry and even hurt. Those are the only words I have seen written by Joe McGinniss about this situation. His lawyer wasn’t going to allow the emails to be published but obviously he and Joe felt the emails exonerated him rather than libeling him.

          The fact that Joe has left the details of “his friendship” with you and Jeanne out of his blog actually signifies that those are personal relationships that he valued and/or still does.

          If I had a friendship with someone and that friendship ended for whatever reason, I would hope that I respected what we had enough to not air it publicly for all to judge. Additionally, I would hope that the other person would respect me enough to not air the details of our friendship either.

          To speak about Joe in the way that you did, it is almost as if you lost a lover. Do you post about the other friends/lovers in your life you have lost?

          To clarify my position again, I do not doubt your hurt nor do you need me or anyone else to validate your feelings.
          Comparing Joe McGinniss to Sarah Palin however, is a smear against him and you are certainly intelligent enough to understand this. Your words:
          “By releasing the unfinished manuscript of Frank
          Bailey, Ken Morris and Jeanne Devon, he’s shown himself to be more like his subject.

          I don’t think they are
          that different.

          Money. Loyalty tests. Vendettas.”

          As with every relationship, those of us outside that relationship only see about 10% of what the reality is. And as with all “break ups” there are two sides to the story. So far you and Jeanne are the ones airing the dirty laundry. Joe has been discreet and dare I say even considerate of what he shared with each of you.

          • “The fact that Joe has left the details of “his friendship” with you and Jeanne out of his blog actually signifies that those are personal relationships that he valued and/or still does.”
            ———————————–
            The fact that Mr McGinniss left out details of any relationship with Shannyn or Jeanne could signify any number of things – that his attorney, publicist, and/or editor told him to keep his mouth shut and not stir up any more flap before the book comes out, that he adheres to the don’t say anything if you can’t say anything nice routine… I can think of a number of others.

            To decide that it “actually signifies that those are personal relationships that he valued and/or still does.””
            is without merit as it lives in the same place any other speculation about his motives might be. Speculation.
            There is nothing but his silence which is known fact. The why is not known.

          • You have no idea. I don’t mean that snotty. You dig and beg for more dirty laundry while criticizing it at the same time. Believe me, I’d rather be cracking joke and oysters with Joe than just about anyone. Move on.

          • “They have posted these thoughts, feelings, opinions on line…”

            Yes, she did. It’s her blog.

            Aren’t you people the same ones who complained that Joe’s blog was his and he could say what he wanted? I believe someone compared a blog to a “home” that readers should be gracious walking into. Well? Aren’t you on a blog right now? Where’s your graciousness?

            Every word of what this woman wrote has the sound of truth to it, imo. And it’s her feeling, not yours. You don’t know McGinnis personally, never broke bread with him, this blogger has. If anyone is pining away, it’s folks like you. Go ask Joe to activate his comment section so you guys can go back there and give him a big cyberhug.

      • Oh dear, this is what is referred to as “touching a nerve”. I’m so sorry that you are so wrapped up in this as to be this emotionally undone by it. Again, your words are full of assumptions and accusations so they just kind of make my eyes glaze over, but I feel your pain even if I don’t agree with the causes of it or how you are dealing with it.

        We’ve heard it all for years now, nothing new. I’m tired of people attacking Shannyn (please spell her name right) for all the wrong reasons, but I have no vendetta or interest in you personally so I really am sorry you are having such a day and that I touched a sore spot. Please accept my humble apologies as a fellow human.

        I do hope you feel better after venting, and can go on to do some actual work that will make you feel empowered in the political arena. There is plenty to be done – and much of the work can be fulfilling and rewarding!

        • When one is unable to draw upon intellectual ammunition with which to argue their case, they rely upon attacks, sarcasm, and other such avenues to vent their frustration. I apologize for taxing your intellect to the point that you have been reduced to this embarrassing display of pettiness.

          • That’s sad, now you just sound mean and foolish rather than mad. It seems as though you are intent on hijacking the post and comments which is very rude. I don’t take bait, so look for a rise somewhere else. Better yet, pour a glass of wine (or tea) and call it a night.

          • Your comments channel much of what is discussed at PoG blog. It doesn’t matter if you are really a regular from that blog, or just one who sounds the same. The pushy, attacking attitude – along with the digging through comments to pull a quote out to make a snarky reply – while people are reasonable in response, that’s what we’ve seen for quite some time now. It’s not pretty.

            Honey, not vinegar. Don’t label enemies when they aren’t. We don’t all agree, but we can agree to be civil.

          • “When one is unable to draw upon intellectual ammunition with which to argue their case, they rely upon attacks, sarcasm, and other such avenues to vent their frustration. I apologize for taxing your intellect to the point that you have been reduced to this embarrassing display of pettiness.”

            The second sentence of this reply seems to prove the validity of the first sentence.

            Just sayin’…

          • For Nan. Drink comes out of nose, that hurt.

          • For Danny. My apologies for your pain. (And my thanks, too – you just made my day.)

      • Those that defend McGinness for his actions pertaining to the Bailey manuscript are quite entitled to do so. Those who feel he crossed the established ethical line in publishing are equally entitled to that opinion. If a belief is strongly held it is not for others to try to impose their particular point of view on those who disagree with it. The group supporting McGinniss have no greater rights to disapproval or indignation than the group supporting the authors of “Blind Allegiance”. Freedom of speech doesn’t have to mean pitched battles or heated arguments; words are not
        bludgeons to beat those who disagree into submission.

        • NO bludgeons intended.
          Some of us aren’t taking ‘sides’ but are instead trying and failing to remind everyone that there is always two sides to a story. No one on the ‘side’ of Jeanne/Shannyn et al even allow any of us from the “outside” to have a discussion that in any way depicts a two sided dispute.

          Even if we hang tough and get thru all the deflection and resistence someone will eventually remind us of the “legalities” involved in the dispute. No one ever answers whether there were multiple wrongs committed by several people involved. I don’t know the full story nor does anyone here. As I stated in my earlier comment, we see approx. 10% of any relationship. The remaining 90% is behind doors. The conclusion I have come to is that those in support of Shannyn and Jeanne have chosen to turn a blind eye to the 90% they don’t know. Again I ask, why must everyone choose sides?

          My point stands:
          Why did Shannyn post this? What discussion was desired for posting it? Joe had his first interview on national television and Shannyn chooses to post about her “hurt feelings” over being “played” the same day. What was the motivation?

          i don’t need nor expect an answer. After all, I am from the outside aren’t I? Beware those of us looking for answers from the outside.

  15. So some of you commenting here feel that Shannyn and should have handled the betrayal of her friends by Joe M differently.. that you guys would have stood by while and said ‘oh well, that’s the school of hard knocks, moving on..’ Well, I will say that how she chooses to handle this situation is her own prerogative and that she has every right to air her side of what she thinks happened. Stop being so judgmental .. just because Shannyn is exposing a rift ‘in the community’ does not make her ‘against the cause’. Yes, believe it or not people who oppose Paylin can and will disagree, and yes Paylin may take some delight in that, but there are disagreements and rifts in any movement or phenomenon.

    Oh, and just because Joe is an investigative Journalist does not excuse him from questionable behavior and tactics. The ends do not always justify the means, and it seems like many in the anti-Paylin community will go to any lengths and cross any boundary just to see their ends fulfilled.. well I say that there are boundaries that shouldn’t be crossed, no matter how much we all want to see Paylin’s political influence diminished.

    Shannyn has been a fearless voice in the effort to educate people on who Sarah really is. She was on KUDO in Anchorage nearly every day in 06, 07 and 08′ commenting on and often criticizing Palin before many of you (and I dare say even Joe) knew she even existed. To suggest that she has dropped the ball in this fight or even betrayed the people who are against Palin is just untrue and disrespectful towards Shannyn.

  16. Shannyn, you have class. Joe McGinness, with his use of the contributors’ comments on his blog, his friendship with Roger Ailes, his snarky use of Doonesbury to gain publicity, his betrayal of Jeanne Dixon and Ken Morris–does not.
    He’ll make a bundle on his lightweight book and Sarah Palin will be finished as a candidate. We’ll probably never find out what really happened about
    Trig and the rest of them.

  17. The fact that Palin et al creates so much vitrol, tribalism and turmoil is just another indictment and grand overview of her malignant narcissism. It’s as if her nasty disposition and Jezebel affectations give off fumes and effect everyone around her. Personally I don’t understand why Ms. Moore feels used. Perhaps she is envious of Joe’s skills as a writer. I won’t speculate for it is pointless. What matters to those of us who despise Palin for who she pretends to be is that she is finally held accountable. Perhaps for the first time in her troubled life. The reaction thus far from the Palin’s (or should I say Todd) is truly pathetic. He hasn’t read the book but through osmosis knows it’s full of “lies”. He didn’t seem too interested when the house next to theirs was occupied by recovering drug addicts. He seems to ignore that his wife sexualizes everyone who is critical of her and is silent when it is she who attacks the character and integrity of those whom she vilifies. He didn’t seem upset when his daughter dry-humped the floor as well as her dance partner on that crappy show but now he feigns being creeped out? It would be great if Gabby Giffords, in her first interview calls Sarah out for her comments and her use of gun sight symbols.
    There is far more in this book than drugs and sex and if Sarah truly believes that she channels god, then perhaps now she will get the message he/she/it is sending her. Enough already with the bullshit Sarah. Take your ill gotten fame and money and just go away.

  18. Thanks for this post. I’m frustrated with the commenters who want to sweep this under the rug to keep solidarity with all things anti-Palin. They are truly missing the big picture. Takes-one-to-know-one works for me. I dislike palin for her lack of integrity. Why would I tolerate those same faults in someone else just because they might have lodged a chink in Palin’s armor.

  19. I agreed with Dan Fagan :

    http://www.adn.com/2008/09/16/528420/no-one-is-above-the-truth-even.html

    and marvelled at the fact since I disagree with him so vehemently on so many things. We had a number of odd agreements and unlikely alliances build up here over SP the longer her governorship thingy went on.
    Central to my agreement with Mr Fagan here was his concern that Alaskans, particularly Republican Alaskans, were so wrapped up in one of their own maybe making it to the national stage that they were happy to ignore SP’s imperious, inconsistent, and scofflaw behavior. His question about whether the truth still matters is at the core of his concern.
    I see something very similar in some groups of anti-SP folks in recent months- taking-SP-down , keeping her from national office, hunting for the right “gate” to knock her off the “national stage” , etc etc etc…
    Each new book about her or lie or faux pas she’s caught in is gonna be IT!
    and IT might not happen if anyone breaks ranks over behavior, activities, anything which could have the least tie to SP !

    The truth does matter and the shoddy user-type treatment by Mr McGinniss of Shannyn and Jeanne is unacceptable.
    He gets a free pass because his book might be IT?
    Pffft!
    Shannyn- I’m sorry he is/was so good at posing as a friend that you got hurt. I’m sorry he’s been able to raise enough chatter that it’s been lost in the noise that he treated AKM so badly over keeping her legal obligation to keep quiet about her work on Blind Ambition.
    I don’t think he’s worth it but I’m sorry you are still hurt.
    and quite, frankly, this is the perfect time to make mention of the methods by which he used you to get access and info to advance himself. hugs to you and Pfft! to Mr McGinniss.
    ole whatzername may not have made an abrupt and final departure from the public eye yet but her decline has been staedy and sure and I thank you for your part in that.

    • oh crap- Blind Allegiance…
      Blind Ambition always comes to mind when I think of SP

  20. I did not have the option of replying to your last comment to me Shannyn so it is randomly placed here in the comments.

    To be concise, I did not “dig or beg” for dirty laundry.
    I merely pointed out to you and all of your defenders that it is quite possibly wrong to publicly air this “dirty laundry”………if for no other reason then respect for what you once had with Joe.

    Any attempts to provide a different view in this sad little tale is met with opposition here. Obviously this is no place for myself or anyone that can see two sides of a story. I can understand however, why Joe McGinniss could choose to not participate in a friendship with you now. It is quite difficult to maintain a relationship with anyone who is ABSOLUTELY right.

    You started your post with “I wrote this last winter. Sadly, it still stands.”

    Who should “move on”?

  21. I, for one, am going to have a glass of wine and call it a night. Shannyn – thank you for sharing your heart, and for all that you do.

    Seems my intellect was in question earlier so I had to think fast…trying to come up with a snappy little joke johnny on the spot. Dang it – no joke, but I did just think up one one of those words where you change just one letter of the word, then make up a new meaning (kinda like you-know-who):

    vendebta = the act of Sarah Palin attacking the vending machine which stole her money

  22. Shannyn Moore has a degree of “celebrity” and certainly has a platform upon which she can espouse her views on things. This blog offers her an opportunity to reach an even wider audience. ANYONE with a platform that is used to inform, influence, and educate should be questioned and vetted.

    Joe McGinniss was questioned repeatedly on his blog. He actually answered his distractors either directly or through a post.
    He was a “newbie” to blogging and never tried to hide that his publisher suggested the blog to gain interest for his book.

    You Shannyn have had a blog for many years. To post about Joe and make comparisons to Sarah and speak about “vetting and not vetting”, and then to not understand that you too should be vetted is naive and even a bit hypocritcal. If someone makes living on the airwaves and on a blog then that person can be questioned.

    You have not even attempted to answer why you posted this today. Your friend Martha has been busily deflecting any of my comments, observations and questions.

    You did not merely post that you are hurt and miss Joe’s company.
    You opened up the whole can of worms again about “blind allegiance” from your perspective only.

    Had your post simply said “I’d rather be cracking joke and oysters with Joe than just about anyone.” I would not have had any questions for you. That is not all you said however and we all should question everyone.

    • Odd remark. What does this mean:
      “You opened up the whole can of worms again about “blind allegiance” from your perspective only.”
      given this is Ms Moore’s personal blog, not a news piece?
      Is there a rule somewhere which says bloggers must include someone else’s view in a personal piece?
      Is there a rule somewhere that Ms Moore’s proximity to a “can of worms” is not to be brought up, even though the flap affected her?

    • “Joe McGinniss was questioned repeatedly on his blog. He actually answered his distractors either directly or through a post.”

      that’s not true. He never answered me. What he did was delete my individual posts. And he didn’t just delete MY words, he deleted his own, as well. He deleted an entire post he created himself, which had nothing to do with “distractors.” What Joe didn’t realize with blogging, was that you can’t hide behind a blog. You’re front and center, and your words are not edited through the long process as with books. There are no editors. A blog reveals the author’s true intent, his true feelings, his true nature.

      I saw his true nature, just a speck of it, and it disgusted me. And once I saw that, I just crossed my fingers that he didn’t ruin his own damn book.

      • He never answered me either, which I really couldn’t give two flicks of a cat’s tail about; but I have to wonder why this post of Shannyn’s has ignited such anger in certain quarters. When I read it I was put in mind of someone who was thinking out loud, musing if you will about valued events from past experiences, and the realization that they could never be repeated. My interpretation could be way off the mark, probably is; but I’m certainly not going to go on the attack on the assumption that my reading of the post is the correct one. Copyright was breached by McGinniss when he “leaked”/distributed the manuscript of Blind Allegiance. Whether his supporters like it or not that is fact, and one can only conclude it was done to render the book irrelevant. Not surprisingly this upset a lot of people. It’s really not a case of “top investigative journalist” “established author” or all the other descriptions appended to his name. On his own blog he waved red rags at his readers to get a response on Palin and when his notebook was full he pulled the plug, planting some pretty nasty barbs on his way out the door. His blog, his prerogative. Sure. Nothing in Shannyn’s post is going to make any difference to his sales. Why make a production of Hamlet about it?

  23. As if you show friends who have helped more gratitude, Shannyn?

    • My dad once told me never to drive myself to succeed out of spite towards someone else. You can’t be fulfilled that way.

      I hate to say it because I think Jeanne is a kind and thoughtful person, but investing so much into Sarah… was bound to turn into something ugly.

      I’ve noticed a lot of Outsiders making their way to Alaska for a piece of our soul, just to whisk it away to hang on their wall like a trophy to impress their important friends.

      Be careful who you invite into your sphere, especially if they are from Outside, because no amount of literary praise can replace the company of someone with a shared experience of a lifetime lived here.

      • Diane, here’s a joke I (a Yankee) was told in the South, about the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee, modified for the Alaskan context.

        An Outsider flies up, looks around, and goes home. A Damn Outsider doesn’t go home soon enough

    • Is your phone broken, PM? The reason you are not emailed is because you have a tendency to print what is sent to you as a private email. What did you expect?

  24. Distributing – or “sharing” – another’s written work without permission (or license to do so) is a violation of copyright. Period. It is illegal. That is not slander, that is fact. Period.

    Shopping a manuscript around is a legitimate reason to “share” (and is done with the “permission” of the author or authors – no copyright violation there). For it to be passed on to another author is … iffy, but more or less understandable.

    But for it to be passed on from that author to someone *not* even in the publishing business… that’s unheard of, and a violation of copyright. Illegal. Not slander, just fact. Remember that whole “copyright violation” thing? Illegal. Period.

    To defend oneself for having done the above by using snark is *not* the way to win friends and influence people. But it’s not illegal, it’s just not real bright.

    • Nicely said.

  25. It’s clear that Shannyn is sad that Joe’s caddish behavior with the “Blind Allegiance” manuscript hurt people she cared about, and that she regarded this as ending “a sacred friendship.”

    I have a couple questions about what Shannyn means by “That night, we drank fantastic scotch, talked about life’s regrets which included missed opportunities for cannibalization, spent the night …”

    1)”missed opportunities for cannibalization” – whatever meaning is intended, I don’t get it. Could this be explained?2

    2)”spent the night” – this does not explicitly say, but in the context of the other emotionally intimate activities which preceded and followed it, implies the possibility and indeed the probability of “went to bed together.” Joe is married. I’m not a friend of any of the involved parties, nor do I ever expect to be, but this has the potential of being Too Much Information and possibly hurtful to someone. Or maybe not. It raises an eyebrow.

    With best wishes in the pursuit of truth, justice, and the potentially sentient way,

    mistah charley, ph.d.

    • 1) A story from a World War 2 vet. 2)Never. Get your head out of the gutter.

      • I’m sorry you think my head is in the gutter. You used the word “seduced” in your post. Perhaps I am more dirty-minded than most in thinking you might have meant it in the way I asked about. In any case, you have now clarified the issue for anyone who, like myself, may have perceived any ambiguity.

  26. Maybe I am just simple, but it seems to me that intellectual commentary misses the point here. Shannyn is mourning the person and the friend she thought Joe was. Now that she knows who he really is, she has every right to mourn. I get that! I went through the same process when I divorced my ex. maybe it doesn’t make intellectual sense, but it makes emotional sense. Geeez, people, get a clue!

    • Yes she has every right to mourn. Per her post, she wrote this last winter— so she has been mourning for a while. I don’t think anyone can misunderstand mourning a loss, whatever the reason for the loss.

      There is no logic to mourning, there is no time limit, there is no explanation as to what to do with the pain, how to heal, when to move on. It is a process and is unique to each situation and each individual.
      Posting about her loss and pain perhaps is one way she has to try to deal with the hurt.

      That said, WHY did she decide to express her pain now and why did she choose to denigrate Joe McGinniss? She compared him to Sarah Palin and used adjectives that can only be interpreted as negative. This is not merely expressing her mourning over the loss of a friend. The timing of the post is not coincidental and the post is not about just her loss. The last post she made prior to this one was in April, unless my browser is not showing this blog correctly. So no posts for 5 months and then coincidentally a post about her pain over Joe on the same day he is covered nationally on the Today Show?

      • “I don’t think anyone can misunderstand mourning a loss…” “There is no logic to mourning, there is no time limit…”

        Yet you choose to ask “why this timing.”

        To this day, I mourn the loss of my brother. Even now, decades later, hearing his favorite song will bring me to my knees.

        In this (original topic) case, only a year has passed, and McGinniss is in the news, references to his work are made in *daily* comic strips… a near-continuous reminder of what someone thought was a good friendship. Why not now? When you see a billboard for hottentot (whatever) lemons on every corner, is it any wonder you start thinking about lemonade?

        • I agree. Your comment about him being in the news, daily reminder,etc. is spot on.

          Why denigrate Joe in a post about loss and mourning? And why now?
          No one is touching the part of my comments that is asking what does mourning the loss of a friend have to do with denigrating Joe McGinniss?

          She disguises this post in the title of “mourning joe” and tells everyone of her reverence for him, her enjoyment of him, her joy of sharing her life with him.
          She also adds:

          “I’m sure Joe’s book will show Sarah for who she is. I’m trying not to say “It
          takes one to know one” here. By releasing the unfinished manuscript of Frank
          Bailey, Ken Morris and Jeanne Devon, he’s shown himself to be more like his subject.

          I don’t think they are
          that different.

          Money. Loyalty tests. Vendettas”

          It says “I’m not trying to say “it takes one to know one” here…………….and then goes on to basically say exactly that.

          Additionally, she states:

          “Driving home from filming my TV show, it occurred to me who leaked it. No one
          told me. I called a journalist who had received the leaked manuscript and asked.
          It was confirmed.
          Joe committed friendship suicide. I was asked to keep his secrets and a scourge
          for keeping someone else’s.”

          This appears to me as if she got confirmation from the journalist about who leaked the manuscript and that was the end of the friendship for her. As she states” He committed friendship suicide”
          So, without further information than this I conclude she passed judgement on Joe at that moment. I am not sure about all of you but I know that those nearest and dearest to me are all too human. I try not to pass judgement on them. I am also trying my best to not pass judgement on anyone here.

          I have been attacked, patronized, told to go sit in a corner, told by the blogger to move on and yet, so far it seems not one person is willing to understand the areas of gray I have been writing about. I have been accused of hijacking the comments because I am trying to express MY thoughts on this and MY opinions. I know what I am saying is not following lock step with most of the people on here but I don’t understand why my thoughts are any less valid than Shannyn’s or anyone else’s comments.

          I take responsibility for being snarky in some of my words………..i plead mea culpa to the fact that I react and give as good as I get sometimes. None of that negates what I am saying.

          Joe McGinniss is NOT Sarah Palin. Joe McGinniss is not like Sarah Palin. Joe McGinniss IS human, as we all are.

          At the risk of incurring anyone’s wrath and/or misunderstanding of what I am about to say, it is not said with any malicious intent at all……..however, Shannyn Moore is also human. There appear to be people in Alaska that have had dealings with her that left them feeling used and/or abused. Some of these people commented about her and Jeanne Devon on Joe’s blog and they have commented on several other blogs……..palingates, IM, ozmudflats. I have not seen any posts by bloggers that denigrate Ms. Moore.

          Not one of the people involved in this little tale is perfect and without some responsibility for this end result.

          For Martha who among other things compared me to “pog” or whatever blogger /commenter you were comparing me to-I have rarely commented on any blogs………rarely as in maybe 2-3 times ever and I have never commented here before. To make assumptions about who I am will only be a disservice to yourself. Obviously there is a blog with commenters that Martha takes offense at and because she appears to be the “gatekeeper” of this blog, I will assume then that the hostess of this blog takes offense at these people too. Labeling a new commenter as an enemy is definitely a worthy attempt at discrediting them and sending them packing.

          Shannyn’s post happened to hit a nerve because it sounded SO much like Sarah. Poor victim, naive me and big,bad outsider Joe. The whole post to me, seemed SO beneath Shannyn’s intelligence. But perhaps like Sarah, it isn’t beneath
          Shannyn and she is possibly just as vindictive as Sarah.

          Since last nite in between my life and work I have been attempting to get SOMEONE to at least consider my points and no one will.

          It feels to an outsider like me exactly the same as I have heard people who have been close to Sarah explain it. There is only one way -her way……….as it is here-there is only one way, your way.

          It is unfortunate that one of my few attempts at conversing with Alaskans did not show me the warmth and openness and friendliness that Joe has spoken about.

          • Seriously, get a life. You have written more on the subject than I have and it’s a bit pitiful. You aren’t trying to converse, you are trying to take up space. You don’t know jack diddly but pretend. Martha the gatekeeper? Sorry. I sound like Sarah? do you know her? do you know me? I hear Joe has a blog now.

  27. just over at C4P to find out what went on today in Palinland and her rumored “announcement on bob and mark”. While skimming through the comments (in which they seem to be infighting over Sarah not announcing) I saw this comment from creuladev and it was just crazy to read it after what I just said in my comment here about 30 minutes ago. please explain how you are different than this (except the being a “joke” part):

    “”WE” are not a joke…but the premise of this site has become a joke..
    Note the attacks if you share a thought or idea….
    Back in “the day”…we actually had real discussion.
    Now it is all about “Pro Palin”..and if you disagree with anything she does or says…
    POW!!!! Right in the Kisser!

    That is the JOKE!

    Can we not share..observe…discuss?
    A long time ago..when this site started going down hill…the joke was..”And about her hair”…
    meaning that you could not say anything negative without people freaking out…

  28. Sucker!!!

  29. Rats. Ok, I’ll try. Please be patient with me, because I have to admit, I don’t see this as having “denigrated” Joe McGinniss. It’s not slander if it’s the truth, after all.

    A bit of my background (so you can see my own bias(es)): I was raised by a mother rabid on the subject of copyright. She was a musician but refused to have a “Fake Book” (aka “black book” – i.e. black market – !) in the house, Weak as the copyright laws were then, she refused to violate ‘em. So, that’s the climate I was brought up in.

    So, now we come to this story. A couple of weeks ago, Truthout.org wrote a piece on the whole Bailey book leak, which really tells the story much better than we have time to deal with her. It is complete with emails by and to McG (at his attorney’s insistence, no less). http://www.truth-out.org/trials-joe-mcginniss/1314731960 There is a link to the emails in question in that article. Seriously, read it. And the link to the emails – read those too.

    In some of those emails, McG accuses Devon of “whoring herself out” to work on Bailey’s book, and of being paid for same. (My understanding is that there was no money involved until the book was sold.) He – his emails to Devon seemed – to me – to be deliberately hurtful. Read ‘em, judge for yourself.

    The thing is, any author who’s been in the business for any length of time is well aware of copyright laws. Even so, he sent copies – not to others in the publishing business, but to the media. He has stated he put in a “don’t use, cuz of copyright” but to my knowledge, that has not been verified. Later, he announced that there would be no “pre-release” copies of his own book made available because “the contents could >gasp< be leaked" and he – his publisher, rather – felt that would be detrimental to the actual release of the book. (funny, that – yes, snark. sorry)

    Slander is lying to make someone look bad. Conversely, if something is true, then it is not slander. McGinniss has stated "Yes, I sent that manuscript on… what's the problem?" but refuses to risk his own work to a possible "leak."

    His motives are officially unknown. His behavior, his wording in the emails, none of them suggest a Dudley Do-right kind of guy. It almost appears as if he "did as he wanted"… until someone tells him he can't (he knows copyright law, he’s not an idiot, just a …nevermind).

    One of Palin’s more well-known statements was “I’ll do what I like until the courts tell me I can’t.”

    Appropriate or not, I believe that’s where the comparison comes in.

    You quoted Shannyn as saying “I was asked to keep his secrets and a scourge
    for keeping someone else’s.” It seems she was expected to keep his secrets, but was apparently in the wrong for having kept someone else’s secret (from him…).

    McG has shown he is capable of being kind (Shannyn’s mom, homework with offspring), but it appears it was a veneer only.

    • THANK YOU!! SINCERELY, THANK YOU.

      i did read the truthout article and did read Joe’s emails.
      Everyone’s perspective is different yes? “anyone can prove anything in the bible” for example………..we have all heard that yes?

      So my reading of Joe’s emails to me showed someone hurt and angry.
      I also saw someone who thought highly of Jeanne’s writing and accused her of “whoring herself out to bailey’s book” as meaning he thought she was better than that, could do better for herself than that.

      I am not in the middle of this mess so from the outside, it is quite easy to see all sides of this drama.

      Re: “McG has shown he is capable of being kind…………veneer only”
      I have this to say………..when Joe received the copy of the manuscript from his publisher, realizing that those he thought were friends had been writing about the same subject as he (he started 3 years ago) behind his back and not trusting him enough to divulge this information, and submitting this manuscript to his publisher without even letting him know PRIOR to submitting it (at that point I would think the N.D.A Jeanne signed and the secret Shannyn was sworn to by Jeanne would be moot……..they were shopping it around) do you not think he felt betrayed? Re: what he did after his initial hurt, anger, feelings of betrayal none of us know his absolute motivation because he has not spoken of it. HE DID NOT KNOW. HE FOUND OUT WHEN HIS PUBLISHER FORWARDED THE MANUSCRIPT TO HIM.
      HOW DO YOU THINK THAT FELT TO JOE?

      again, thank you. and again, as i keep saying-there are two sides to every story and i think it is in poor taste for shannyn or jeanne to spread their version of the story around to discredit joe mcginniss.
      if he did indeed do something illegal………….then i suggest they use the attorney ken has complained of paying for and have him initiate a lawsuit on their behalf………. shannyn made a judgement and is now a victim of her own doing.

  30. I had a “friend” for 17 years. I stuck up for her, I knew there was “good stuff” there – and there was. She was not easy to be friends with; I’ve seen people run when they heard her voice approaching. Seventeen years.

    Somewhere around 2007 I think, she became angry with me (she’s rabidly right wing, and I just tried to avoid politics altogether with her), and sent me a two page email, blistering me about my shortcomings as a friend, as an idiot who had no right to consider having an opinion re armies and war etc, going so far as to try to use my own family to show how wretched a human I was/am.

    Whether she deserved it or not, I never once did anything to her to retaliate for that attack. Never did anything that might affect her income, never did anything to harm her or her family. I might have been angry, or hurt – or both, really – but there are some things that just Are Not Done.

    (and yes, distributing written material without permission or license of the author(s) or representative of same – is violating copyright law. i.e. illegal)

    So, I take it we agree to differ.

  31. I had a “friend” for 17 years. I stuck up for her, I knew there was “good stuff” there – and there was. She was not easy to be friends with; I’ve seen people run when they heard her voice approaching. Seventeen years.

    Somewhere around 2007 I think, she became angry with me (she’s rabidly right wing, and I just tried to avoid politics altogether with her), and sent me a two page email, blistering me about my shortcomings as a friend, as an idiot who had no right to consider having an opinion re armies and war etc, going so far as to try to use my own family to show how wretched a human I was/am.

    Whether she deserved it or not, I never once did anything to her to retaliate for that attack. Never did anything that might affect her income, never did anything to harm her or her family. I might have been angry, or hurt – or both, really – but there are some things that just Are Not Done.

    (and yes, distributing written material without permission or license of the author(s) or representative of same – is violating copyright law. i.e. illegal)

    So, I take it we agree to differ.

  32. rats. sorry for the duplicate. Wretched mouse!

  33. yes. we agree to disagree.

    I can’t get over the agent – Carol Manning I believe, shopping a FULL MANUSCRIPT around on line. Everyone knows nothing is safe on line.

    I would be interested to find out if Jeanne, Ken and Frank have pursued legal action and if not, what stopped them? Something is not adding up here Nan.

  34. I understand that it’s not uncommon to
    1. shop a full MS around, or
    2. use the internet.
    3. It wasn’t the internet that leaked the MS, it was a human.

    What is less common is when a publisher sends an prospective MS to one of their authors. What was previously unheard of is for a complete, prospective MS to be sent out of the publishing loop to media outlets.

    I understand that Ken spent an ungodly amount of money in an attempt to stem the tide after the leak. But it was something like when the levee broke in ’93 in St Louis – or in New Orleans, no finger in the dike was going to work on a levee that had already been breached.

    As for more than that – I don’t know. I’m don’t have the facts. I do know that legal stuff can take EONS. I once filed a complaint against a real estate agent & her broker (as did the “other” party in the transaction) and in spite of a clearly altered Disclosure Statement, it still took two full years before the investigation was finished. Just crazy.

    • Since Jeanne, Shannyn, Ken, Frank, and really most people with access to television and internet knew Joe was writing this book, why didn’t Jeanne, Shannyn, Ken or Frank insist the the agent not send to Joe’s publisher? Why did they not tell Joe PRIOR to the agent sending the manuscript to his agent?

      Again, I do not know what the full exchange was between Joe and his publisher when Joe was sent the manuscript. I cannot get into Joe’s mind when he sent it to ADN. I have not seen the email Joe sent to ADN. Until there is proof that he sent it with intent to discourage prospective publishers from signing a contract, it is alleged behavior and intent.

      I know partial manuscripts are sent around and I know synopsis are sent around via internet. Full manuscripts are rarely sent via email.

      As others have pointed out -the three of them had not been offered a contract by any publisher. Honestly, many people I know have not read the leaks on line, nor have I- but we all have ordered Joe’s book.
      I only knew about the Bailey book because of the leaks and associated press about them and still that wasn’t enough to tempt me to purchase the book.

      Also as others have said (in comment at truthout.org among other places) Jeanne, Frank and Ken had access to, kept confidential and made money off of emails that others were trying to get opened up to the public………in Alaska. Were they in the right to hold those emails back from the citizens of Alaska and make a profit off of them? They were emails from and to Sarah and her staff while she was in office.
      State business. State emails.

      There is so much here and so little at all. You honestly expressed the loss of your brother and so I trust that you understand “life is short”.
      This dispute between a few people have taken up too much time on blogs, in lives and that includes mine and the time I have spent on this blog. Life is short. Live. Love. Trust. Move forward and appreciate what you have and those around you with which to share.

      Thank you for agreeing to disagree. We are all so very much the same despite our many differences.

      • I agree that there are always two, or even more, sides to a story, and they can BOTH have valid points.

        The thing that gets me about this issue of Joe/Jeanne/Bailey and the books is that it seems to me that Joe is too experienced of an author to purposely leak something that would be in violation of copywrite law. Also, I agree with you about the fact that it seemed the Bailey book was having a problem with finding an author, it was after the “leak” and the subsequent rewrite that a publisher was found. So from that perspective, maybe Joe did them a favor?

        I am also very concerned about the emails used in the book and what wasn’t disclosed by Bailey. Sure looks like to me that Bailey was just trying to cover his ass. Andrea could have a very valid point about the legality and ethics surrounding using those emails to make a book for profit while the public FOIA requests for those same emails were being stonewalled and denied. (Even if Bailey said something about donating proceeds to charity – which I don’t even know is true or not.) Considering what is going on with the FBI investigations in Wisconsin regarding Gov. Walker and his staff, Bailey could be next in line for FBI scrutiny.

        As I stated above in the beginning of this thread, lets come back in a few years and see if any perspectives have changed, after all isn’t hindsight 20/20?

  35. Shannyn Moore:
    “Seriously, get a life. You have written more on the subject than I have and it’s a bit pitiful. You aren’t trying to converse, you are trying to spin and strangely. You don’t know jack diddly. Martha the gatekeeper? Sorry. I sound like Sarah? do you know her? do you know me? I hear Joe has a blog now.”

    This is the victim that has been so naively played and hurt by Joe McGinniss? I stand by what I said, You SOUND like Sarah Palin…….and you accused Joe of being the same as Sarah?

    For the record, Nan and I did converse. Converse, as in the exchange of ideas and opinions.

    • I haven’t had time to read all the comments today – clearly. I really was surprised that there was a controversy over me writing my opinion about an old friend. It gets old – people accusing me of being a Palin apologist. Yes. That is what I hear because I won’t carry the water for their arguments. I spend the majority of my time on Alaskan issues and I no longer consider her one of them. You got the brunt of that and I apologize.

    • 17 of 80 posts. Point made. I hope you’re getting paid by the post.

  36. Yes, we did converse. However, I’d wager neither one of us is ready to budge one iota from our POV.

    Shannyn, fer cryin’ out loud, this is your blog, you should be able to write whatever you jolly well want to.

    Nan
    p.s.
    I haven’t ordered the book, don’t really plan to. I might check the used bookstore in a few weeks, but I doubt if I’ll make a special trip for it.

  37. Shannyn, I read the entire thread last night, and didn’t want to get into a conversation with another commenter (And, frankly I expect a swift reply, which I will ignore and dismiss out of hand, anyone who hijacks an entire thread for attention doesn’t deserve my time).

    At any rate, I read your post, and your intentions were crystal clear to me. You eloquently communicated your feeling of being betrayed by someone you consider a friend. That’s something I can relate to, I think it’s part of the human experience. We live, we learn, and we grow. You’re wise not to close any doors, because we never know what tomorrow brings. Betrayal, on any level hurts, but when a trust is broken, it takes a lot longer to come to terms with.
    I’m not from alaska, but your love for the state shines through, I admire your progressuve POV, your interviewing style, wit, wisdom, and above all your honesty.

    • “…didn’t want to get into a conversation with another commenter (And, frankly I expect a swift reply, which I will ignore and dismiss out of hand, anyone who hijacks an entire thread for attention doesn’t deserve my time.)”

      Could NOT agree more.

  38. Well I don’t think you should be to hard on yourself. You have to look at this from more than one angle. Joe is an old man who left his family and risked his life to research a book. I don’t really blame him for wanting to protect his investment. Frank Bailey seems to me to want to eat from both sides of the trough. He worked for Sarah Palin, was paid well for his work and THEN he wants to write a book saying it was all a big mistake? Sorry Buddy, when some men make “mistakes”, they end up in prison. He had really bad judgement, that does not guarantee him a book deal. I am sure Joe’s relationship with you was sincere. Frank Bailey is the person with questionable motives. I have never met either man. I have purchased both books.


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